Jillian Michaels

Ryan Serhant:		Today’s a super, super special day because I get to sit down with one of the biggest fitness experts, how she calls herself, I think she’s a fitness entrepreneur and so many other things, in the world. She’s a personal trainer, businesswoman, author, TV personality. She does it all. I really don’t think I can actually even do her justice. I have a 15-page intro here to read, so I’m not going to even do that. And I cannot wait for you guys to hear how awesome she is, so without further ado, the Jillian Michaels. Thank you so much for being here.
Jillian Michael…:		Oh, thank you for having me.
Ryan Serhant:		How are you? Where are you? Are you at home?
Jillian Michael…:		I am at home in my office, and the bar you see growing out of my head is the handle to the murphy bed in the office. So I have had a metal bar growing out of my head now for almost a year in every interview. How are you?
Ryan Serhant:		I’m good. We are in our new office. We started a new company in the fall, so we took down a townhouse in Tribeca. And so this is the dining room-
Jillian Michael…:		It’s beautiful.
Ryan Serhant:		… that is also my office, but it’s the way it’s supposed to be now. Right?
Jillian Michael…:		I think, yes, there’s a lot of forgiveness these days for …
Ryan Serhant:		Things don’t really stop in New York. Are you on lockdown now again?
Jillian Michael…:		Oh, my gosh. We are in full lockdown. I do the whole spiel in my head every day where I’m like, “You’re lucky. Be grateful. You have your health. You’re fortunate. You can get outside. Shut the fuck up. You can work.” But it’s like, oh, my god, Ryan, it’s getting so old. Right?
Ryan Serhant:		Yeah.
Jillian Michael…:		It’s just grueling. And the kids aren’t in school, and it’s just like, oh. But we’re going to get through it. I think summer we’ll see a genuine light at the end of this hell ride.
Ryan Serhant:		Yeah. Fall, we’ll go back to normal. It’s interesting the way you just kind of framed that whole moment because hearing you have to give yourself kind of those inner mantras and inner monologues, I think it’s kind of an eye-opener because everybody else has to do the same thing, but to know that you do it too and go through it is pretty humbling. Do you have morning rituals? When you wake up, do you have kind of a way that you start your day?
Jillian Michael…:		Coffee.
Ryan Serhant:		Lots of it?
Jillian Michael…:		Lots of it. I really should have some sort of like, “First I do a morning meditation,” but that would be bullshit. The reality is my 10-year-old wakes me up and lets me know that the cafe in the kitchen is open. I need to get up and start making them breakfast, even though they don’t have anywhere to be. I’m like, “You’re not on Zoom for another hour and a half. Leave me alone.” But she’s up. Crack of dawn, she’s at my door. So that’s a ritual.
		And then I caffeinate myself, feed everybody in the house, take my vitamins. And then generally, get the kids on Zoom, or my co-parent. I hate to say “ex” because it seems to have some negative connotation, but the kids’ other mom is fantastic. And me or her get them on their Zoom, and then I begin my workday.
Ryan Serhant:		Are you organic all day, every day? Or you’re organic 80%? or are you kind of like … you mix it up a little bit?
Jillian Michael…:		I eat out. I’m guilty of eating out, so that is where the non-organic stuff would come from. And when I do do that, there are certain things I stay away from. So I wouldn’t eat red meat unless it was grass-fed, grass-finished, organic. That’s where I get a little nuts because organic isn’t necessarily about what you’re getting, it’s about what you’re not getting. So I don’t want the fake colors, fake fats, fake sugars, hormones, antibiotics, preservatives. I don’t want it. So I have the luxury, and I realize this is a very elitist, obnoxious thing to say, but I have the luxury to afford organics, and I spend money on organic food whenever I can.
Ryan Serhant:		Do you still, as I’m thinking about organic, think about how healthy you are? Before everything, the TV and all that, you actually did Muay Thai for a long time. Right?
Jillian Michael…:		Well, it was actually a hybrid style. My teacher was one of the original MMA pioneers. Mind you, this is a long time ago. I started taking martial arts when I was 13.
Ryan Serhant:		Was that your choice to get into it? Or did your parents say, “Hey, you keep beating people up, you should do this in a good setting”?
Jillian Michael…:		My mom definitely saw that I needed an outlet and a place where I could kind of belong. And she was dating a guy whose nephews were taking martial arts, and I showed an interest, so she took me to audit a class. And I immediately felt a sense of belonging, a sense of empowerment. And it was a definite journey for me over the years.
		But Muay Thai was one of the modalities that he pulled from. I say Muay Thai because you bring up this name, and no one’s ever heard of it, and you’re like, “Well, part of it’s kung fu, and part of it is Aikido, and part” … so I just say Muay Thai because it’s easier.
Ryan Serhant:		Totally. It’s crazy how big that sport has become, given how sensitive everyone is about absolutely anything right now. MMA, you’ve got some of the most sensitive people in Los Angeles paying billions and millions to watch people kick each other’s ass with their bare hands. And then they leave, and they get really, really … It’s kind of like, I don’t know, there’s something there. What was that community like to you? Because you said you were looking for kind of belonging, right? Especially as a young girl growing up, kind of that … Do you call it the fighting community versus the fitness community? Are those two communities totally separate to you?
Jillian Michael…:		I think they are for sure. For me in particular, because my parents were going through a divorce, I was a chubby kid, I was gay and didn’t know I was gay, but everybody else seemed to know I was gay because I used to get called all the names. I was like, “Those are dumb. I’m not even gay. They could call me dyke, but I’m not” … until later I was like, “Oh, shit. I guess maybe this was a thing.” But I literally had no idea.
		But I was picked on a lot. And so being put in this environment where, quite honestly, there were a lot of grown-ups. Grown-ups aren’t going to pick on kids, right? There were different belt ranges, but there were different ages in those belt ranges. So you would go to a fight night, and you’d have a 35-year-old guy and an 18-year old-senior and then me. So there was a wide range of individuals from all walks of life, and we were a family.
		And it wasn’t even about a fitness cult. It was too long ago for that to even have been a thing. And it wasn’t about MMA because that wasn’t a thing. I remember Jean-Claude Van Damme came out with that movie … What was it? Bloodsport? And it kind of exposed … And I was like, “What is this? Oh, my god.” Yeah, it was so foreign to people, whereas now it’s so incredibly mainstream.
		I just think of it as a very accepting community where we kind of had our own little bubble and everybody was kind, and that’s what I really needed at that time. And then martial arts helped me get in shape, but it also showed me like, wow, you actually are strong, you are capable. It improved my self-image. And when I carry that forward in other aspects of my life, I stopped being bullied like overnight. It was kind of fascinating. I changed my mind-
Ryan Serhant:		Because you could kick their ass.
Jillian Michael…:		I felt like I could. All of a sudden [crosstalk 00:07:08]-
Ryan Serhant:		Well, they also knew you could. Right? That’s-
Jillian Michael…:		[crosstalk 00:07:08] I could, and then I was like, “All right, you know what, come at me, bro.” And the minute you sort of have that mentality where you’re carrying yourself different and you’re respecting yourself, it’s very bizarre, no one ever messed with me. I went kind of from loser to loner, but no one ever really messed with me after that. It was weird.
Ryan Serhant:		We just had a baby. She’s about to turn two. Her name is Zena, and my wife is Greek. Everything changes when you have a little girl. There was a little boy in the playground who went up to the slide, and she was trying to go up, and he pushed her over. And my immediate reaction was like, well, I have to kill him now. I’m sorry to his family. I get it, he’s probably like one and a half, but like you can’t … That’s mine. Emilia literally grabbed me, and she was like, “Listen, you can’t hurt kids here. Zena’s got to learn. She’s got to learn.”
		I get asked a lot of questions from women in business who are either in sales like myself or they’re working in different types of jobs. They always talk to me about having a lack of confidence in a room that is surrounded by men. Like a girl who’s a young analyst at a bank or she’s new in sales, and she’s coming in, and guys have their thing, and they don’t take the girls serious.
		I kind of have my answer that I typically give to them, but I’d love to know what you could say to all those girls, because I know a lot of them are going to listen to this, especially women in sales. In a lot of businesses that are so dominated by men, and a lot of them are dominated by white men. What do you say to those girls in that first job? Is it just know your shit and talk up and don’t be shy?
Jillian Michael…:		Here’s the reality. There is all of that. And that’s great, right? You don’t have a choice but to do that, and you must do that. But my business partner and I have a running joke, and I call him my man piece. And what I mean by that is I can say things like … For example, we have an organic nitro cold brew coffee company. We just have a new line of these organic coffee. These cans and the wrap looks like shit. Complete shit. I got the samples, and I was like, “This is unacceptable. I’ve never even seen this before. This can’t go to a retailer. This isn’t” … So I called him, and I was like, “Okay, what happened here? We need to deal with it.” He’s like, “All right, I want you to send an email to all the partners and the investors saying, ‘We need a call immediately.'” None of them responded. None of them responded. None of them.
Ryan Serhant:		To you?
Jillian Michael…:		No. Two days later, I called him, and I was like, “All right, you’re going to have to get everybody on the phone.” And so he’s like, “No problem.” So he’s like, “Hey, guys, [Kathleen’s 00:09:37] going to be setting up this call. Send times you’re available.” And they all do. Now-
Ryan Serhant:		That’s fucked up.
Jillian Michael…:		I’ve tried. I’ve said it every way. I’ve done the whole calm, no emotion thing. I’ve done it all. And the reality is that sometimes the world is not perfect, the world is not fair, and you will have to find a way around it. And so I use him. Period. And it gets it done for me. I need to get shit done. I don’t have time to play games with your ego or your personality, or like, “Why aren’t you responding to me?” No.
		So there are times where you might have to push things through. You might have to do it without permission. You might have to get a little help from a coworker or a mentor who believes in you. And I, in no means, am trying to on guys. I’ve had tremendous male mentors, and I’ve had men support me in business far sooner than competitive, catty women have. You know what I mean?
Ryan Serhant:		Sure. Yeah.
Jillian Michael…:		But if you are dealing with that, it is a very legitimate thing just like other problems in business. Find a way around it. That’s one of the things I do. And I don’t care that it’s not perfect. It works for me, and it’s time efficient, and I get what I need done.
Ryan Serhant:		The other question I get a lot is with people trying to find their passion, right? And they connect work to passion. They feel that if they’re going to take a job that they don’t love doing, they’re going to hate their life forever because so many people say to find your passion. But then you have other people who say, “Screw that. Don’t find your passion. You got to make money. Fall in love with money, fall in love with sales, fall in love with whatever you want to do. And then do a passion as a side piece, as your hobby.”
		You tell me. But it seems to the world like you really like fitness. It is a passion of yours. And I don’t think you’d be where you are today if it wasn’t something that you actually loved. Do you find yourself to be incredibly lucky? Or is that something that you actually worked on where you knew that, “Hey, I like fitness. I could be good at it. I’m going to turn this into a business.”
Jillian Michael…:		No, I fell into it by accident. I was training for my black belt at 17.
Ryan Serhant:		As you do.
Jillian Michael…:		People saw me in the gym, and they would ask me like, “Oh, how much do you charge?” And I was like, “For what?” I didn’t know what they were propositioning me for. And I realized they were like, “Oh, I want you to be my personal trainer.” I was like, “Oh, okay.”
		So I thought, how much does this job pay that? I think I was making like five bucks an hour delivering pizzas. I could make like $15 an hour being a trainer. And fortunately, my mom had the foresight to say, “I think you need some sort of credential,” so she got me my first little certification in training. And I fell into it, and I did it very organically for years until I was 24.
		And then I started to get that pressure, right? What are you going to do with your life? You can’t live like this forever. Because I was training during the day, bartending at night, making great money, super happy. And I was dating a person who was Ivy League, working in the television industry. So I thought, “I guess I need to get a real job.” So this is where you fall into the “shoulds”. “I should do this,” instead of what you think you want. And I learned very quickly that the more security you seek in life, the less you’re going to have. I’d never got paid less money. I’d never been more miserable.
		So by 27, I had worked my way up to being a motion picture talent agent, and I ended up being fired because I hated it and hated the people. So I fell back into fitness and then realized, wait a second, I’m waking up every day happy. I love what I do. I’m great at it. It’s authentic to me. How can I turn this into a business beyond paycheck to paycheck, invoice to invoice?
		And then that’s a longer story, but it did have to be a very real experience of making the mistakes of going down that “you should” path versus seeing the, not to use this very on-trend term, but it’s relevant, the flow and the serendipity that came when I did what I loved. And at that point I was like, all right, this is inevitable that I’m supposed to do this. How do I turn it into a business?
Ryan Serhant:		Where was a moment in the last 16 years in building your businesses and the various businesses from the apps to the coffee company to everything else, the shows, when did you think, or did you ever think, “Hey, this isn’t going to work out”? Or did you ever feel like a failure at any time? I think people look to you and they’re like, “Man, she has her shit together.” What I’ve always said about people, when I first came to New York and had no money, I was like, “That person’s got super magnetic energy,” and I would say, “They have big money energy,” and that’s how this whole thing started for me. But could you ever feel like kind of curling up in a ball and just going and doing something else?
Jillian Michael…:		Oh, my god. So many times. I mean, there were lawsuits that literally brought me to my knees. There was one … Oh, my god. One of the most important pieces of advice I could ever give an entrepreneur is be so careful with your legal advice. Get multiple opinions. Make sure you know exactly what you are signing. One lawyer had made a mistake on a contract. I don’t know why. To this day I don’t know why. And he did not disclose to this company that NBC had the right to approve commercials. No idea why. To make a long story short, it was actually a supplement company that I was working with way back in the day, and because the supplements did so well, there was a class action lawsuit brought against us. It was all dismissed, of course, as being totally bogus, but it destroyed the products, right?
		So these guys were like, “Well, we don’t want to pay her. The products are destroyed, and we have a multimillion dollar guarantee we owe her.” So they found this mistake in the contract that said that NBC, that we hadn’t disclosed it in the contract. To make a long story short, they sued me for fraud. Fraud. And they wanted every dollar they’d ever spent on the product, every dollar they’d ever given me. Fraud means there’s no insurance, there’s no declaring bankruptcy, you lose everything. And the amount was insane, this insane amount of money.
		And it was hell, and I had to literally … After all the lawyers got done doing their thing, I personally had to fly out and deal with the owners of this company. And I was like, “Okay, you’re not going to get blood from a stone. What is it that you really want?” And I had to end up resolving it. It cost me millions of dollars, but I had to end up resolving it myself at the end of the day.
		I mean, there were moments like that that were just absolutely insane. Huge disasters that I … Hindsight’s 20/20. The public hater thing, you adapt to that. In the beginning you’re like, “Oh, my god.” Like I had said in a Women’s Health article … and at this point I was a golden child. Right? Everybody loved me. All the cool cats wanted to get to know me in town. I was getting calls from all these A-list celebrities. And I was young. I was totally star struck, and I was like, “Oh, this is so cool.” And my popularity score was here. I wasn’t like, “Oh, she’s such a bitch. I hate her.” I was the opposite of that. Everyone loved me. I was the golden girl.
		I gave an interview to Women’s Health, and they asked me about having a child. And this is, obviously, years ago. And I was like, “I don’t know, maybe one day.” And they were like, “Oh, would you carry a child or adopt?” And I was like, “I would adopt.” And they’re like, “Oh, why?” And I was like, “God, I don’t” … And I didn’t disclose that I have something called endometriosis, which is a long story, but I just never … And to be honest, I don’t really care to see my own genetics. I’m 5’2″. I had to get a nose job. I had acne. I’m prone to being overweight. It took a ton of money to fix my teeth. There’s nothing special going on with me. I can adopt a kid and be perfectly happy. Right? I don’t need a little Jillian running around.
		But, oh, my god. It turned into Jillian Michaels … Never said it. The headline was “Jillian Michaels thinks pregnancy ruins a body.” And, oh, my … I went from being like, “Oh, my God, your Q Score is insane. We want to give you a daytime show.” They pulled the daytime show. It was a mess. And that was the first time I was really … got the public hate. When you first experience it, it rocks you. You just feel under siege. Like is a mob going to break into my house and kill me? It’s the craziest thing.
		And then you survive it, and you survive the lawsuit, and you survived the next thing. And now I’m like, “Whatever.” You get to that place, right, where you’re like, I have walked through hell and back. Bring your hate, bring your crazy, bring your cancel culture, and get fucked. Nothing scares me anymore. Nothing. Because I’ve been there, done that, and lived to tell. But it took a lot to get here, for sure.
Ryan Serhant:		Thank you for going into that and telling those two stories. Most people wouldn’t because they get embarrassed or shameful, but it’s an important learning process, I think, as you go through those things, but also as you talk about them so that it can help prevent other people from going through similar … A very, very different level for me, obviously, but I was sued for fraud. And it was in all the real estate trade magazines, which for my business, every developer, banker, lender.
		I sold an apartment to a guy in 2014, when the market was really, really hot. And he got a great deal. Everyone was paying full price. I think I got it for him for like 500,000 off the asking. I bought it and then he wanted to sell it a couple years later. The market has turned, a building got built up in front of his window, and he was losing money.
		And so Million Dollar Listing New York comes on the air, comes on TV, and he comes after me. He’s like, “That guy defrauded me. He should’ve told me.” And so it’s this ridiculous fraudulent lawsuit, but then the headline is “Ryan Serhant sued for real estate fraud.” Real estate’s kind of my life. Right? And I sell a lot of real estate. And so every developer, every client was like, “Dude, you’re cool, but what’s this?” Because people don’t know, right? Everyone reads the headline. Everyone reads it. I was broken.
Jillian Michael…:		Here’s how you know that you’re successful, because what beget the mess with the supplements was that they were so successful, the headlines were “Jillian Michaels’ supplements kill people.” They were all organic. And nowadays, you would call it a pre-workout because it’s so much more politically correct. It was that and “Jillian Michaels thinks pregnancy ruins a body.” And everyone was like, “Oh, she’s a piece of shit. What a bitch. Total fraud, her and her diet pills.”
		And by the way, all the lawsuits were dismissed, but they never printed that. It wasn’t like, “Oh, this is all bogus.” And it destroyed the product, destroyed my name. And it’s like, that’s how you know that you’re successful, is that people start suing you. And you just become a little smarter and a little wiser, and you don’t settle the lawsuits, and you get crazy litigators to triple-check contracts. But it’s so hard. I can’t imagine what that must’ve been like for you.
Ryan Serhant:		What would you say your biggest professional accomplishment is then?
Jillian Michael…:		Longevity, to be honest. I mean, I remember people would be like, “Ah, her 15 minutes of fame,” and I’m like, well, I’m about 16-
Ryan Serhant:		20 years ago.
Jillian Michael…:		Yeah, yeah. As a public figure, I’m 16 years into it. As a person in the business, I’m 30 years into it or 29 because I started as a teenager. So that feels really good because you’re like, yeah, you know what, still on top. Still the go-to. Still one that like gets the ask for, “Oh, we’re doing this article in blank. Let’s get Jill. She’s the expert. Let’s get Jill.” Don’t get me wrong, there are tremendous talents in this field that are, in fact, specialized in other things that I’m not great at, like bodybuilding. I don’t know anything about bodybuilding. Nobody would come to me for that.
		However, the longevity, in my opinion, is a true testament to the authenticity of your message, the efficacy of your products and your programs. And that is my biggest pride, is also having weathered and survived all of these storms for those reasons I just mentioned.
Ryan Serhant:		Yeah. Endurance for the win. Right?
Jillian Michael…:		Yes. A hundred percent.
Ryan Serhant:		Always. Always. Always, always, always. Was 2020 a good year for your businesses, especially for the app and people stuck at home?
Jillian Michael…:		Yeah.
Ryan Serhant:		Did you notice increased downloads, and was it a good income year?
Jillian Michael…:		The app did great. And you almost feel kind of dirty saying that. Right? Because you’re like, “Oh, god [inaudible 00:21:48] say I profited off of this.” It certainly was nobody’s intention. I have been in at-home fitness for the longest time. So fortunately, that part of our business did well.
		Other parts took a massive hit. For example, any television appearances, any public speaking, all of that stuff, where I made a good amount of money, lost all of that. Obviously, that was gone, right? We’re not doing any of that. Then the industries that required foot traffic, like the coffee just got smashed. It’s organic nitro cold brew. We can’t ship it through Amazon. It’s not shelf stable. It requires refrigeration. You’ve got to find it at a retailer. That just got absolutely murdered.
		But then the supplement company that I invested in went through the roof because everyone’s like, “Oh, my god I want to make sure that I [crosstalk 00:22:37]”-
Ryan Serhant:		“I need to stay home. I got to be healthy.”
Jillian Michael…:		“I got to take care of myself. I want to get all my zinc and my D and my K2 and my C.” I would say we netted out even. So where we took hits in some businesses, other businesses did well. I’m just glad to be working. I’m not going to lie. Work is such a huge component of my life. I think it was Freud, right, who said you have these two essential buckets of meaning: one is your work and one is your family and your loved ones. And I’m very lucky that both are currently intact. So I’m grateful beyond and lucky beyond for those two things.
Ryan Serhant:		Yeah. You talked about the investments that you make in all these different companies. And I think in order to make kind of calculated bets that way with your own money, your own cash, right? You’re sweating for that money, and you’re like, “Nah, it seems like a good idea. Here’s some money. Don’t fuck it up.” You have to be able to have foresight into the future. I know no one could predict a pandemic, but it is now 2021. Right? We’re looking into the future. Where does the fitness industry go from here? In New York, the industry looks a lot different than it did even a year ago. It’s pretty wild. Do you have a prediction? What are you excited about?
Jillian Michael…:		I am-
Ryan Serhant:		So I can go invest in it. That’s really what [inaudible 00:23:54].
Jillian Michael…:		Well, here’s the thing. To be honest, I believe there’s going to be a hybrid model. I think a lot of the things that people have taken up at home because … For example, I actually didn’t like to work out at home because I was like, no, this is my business. I want to go to the gym. I don’t want a gym in my house. I don’t want to see it. I want to go to the gym. I want to be around other people. I want to-
Ryan Serhant:		You don’t have a gym in your own house?
Jillian Michael…:		I hate it. I was like, no, I want to train with another trainer. I don’t want to hear my voice. I want to learn their fitness philosophy. I want to take an MMA class with this guy because he’s amazing. And I want to take a yoga class with her because she’s amazing. And I like this woman’s spin class, she’s amazing.
		And I also believe that the best teacher is the best student, so I’m constantly learning from other fitness professionals, doctors, registered dieticians. I always want to learn, and I like the gym for that reason. So then I’m forced to be at home, and all of a sudden I’m on a road bike on Pacific Coast Highway, and I’m like, “This is beautiful. This is lovely.”
Ryan Serhant:		It’s weird. What is this bike thing on roads? What are these legs?
Jillian Michael…:		Whoa, this is crazy. I’m hiking with the dog. I’m like, well, this is very zen. I feel closer to nature. I mean-
Ryan Serhant:		There’s no EDM in the background. The trees aren’t thumping.
Jillian Michael…:		Right? I got a jump rope. I always sucked at it, and all of a sudden now I’m like … I was watching the jump rope dudes on YouTube, and I was practicing my skips, and I got kind of good at it. And I was like, well, this is fun. So I’m not going to give any of that up. But I will tell you right now that the minute the gym opens, my ass will be back, and I’ll be doing both.
		So I think people will say, “All right, I’m not going to spend as much. Maybe I don’t need a … because I did save $6,000 on a membership for myself and my girlfriend to our big box gym, but I will take maybe a class or two a week and then do my other stuff at home.” And I see the accessibility and the affordability going nowhere, being valuable assets that people have adapted to if they weren’t already used to it, because at-home fitness has always been massive.
		However, what I would do is scoop up any of these struggling franchises right now. I don’t know who’s struggling, but if there was a Rise Nation or a Rumble or any of these boutique gyms that are looking to sell … I’m sorry, this sounds like bottom-feeder information, but it is business. Scoop them up because that is going to boom again.
		I mean, do you already know what concert you’re going to? I already know what concert I’m going to. I’m like, “Oh, my god, is Guns N’ Roses is going to be back this summer in New York? They’re selling tickets? Yes, please. Yes, I’m going.” I’m already planning. I have not been to a nightclub in a decade. I would have rather stuck needles in my eyes. Now, I’m like, “I’m going to Ibiza this summer. Get out of my way.”
		I think it’s going to be the roaring ’20s. And I would double-down on, to be honest, both of those components, with fitness being bigger than ever because we’ve seen how powerful it is with regard to preventing disease and optimizing health and performance overall.
Ryan Serhant:		Yeah, I think travel. Travel and fitness, for sure.
Jillian Michael…:		Oh, god.
Ryan Serhant:		All of those stocks, all of those companies are just going to destroy the minute it opens up. And people are going to start traveling, and they don’t even want to. They’re going to be on planes, and they’re going to hate flying. They’re going to be in the gym, and they don’t even like working out, but they’re going to feel like they need to.
		It’s like Field of Dreams, right? It’s like that James Earl Jones speech to Kevin Costner. He’s like, “People are going to get in their cars. They’re going to come here, and they won’t know why. They’re going to stand on the baseball field, and they won’t understand the reason, but they’re going to come. If you build it, they will come.” It’s like, that’s what’s going to happen, and it’s nuts.
		The title of this podcast that I’m doing is called Big Money Energy. When your people brought this to you and we reached out, what did you think about when you heard that?
Jillian Michael…:		I loved it. To be honest, I’ve always been fascinated by real estate and people who understand it, because it seems like the people that make the most money are in that business. And I’m always like, oh, I have such envy, but I don’t really understand it, so I find it intimidating. So people like you, I’m like, “How did you do that?” The flipping and the this and the that and the ROLO. I don’t even [inaudible 00:28:05] the tax law.
		I find it to be so alluring because I realize that that’s how you make big … Every billionaire I’ve ever talked to was like, other than the Bill Gates of the world, they’re all real estate moguls. So I was already kind of … I knew who you were, I already was a fan and respected your energy. And I was like, “Oh, fun. Totally.”
Ryan Serhant:		Part B to that question is how has money played a role in your life? It’s allowed you to invest and build. But going from somebody who was delivering pizza? I think all of us when we’re in our twenties, we’re doing kind of these odd jobs. And I think it’s important, it’s character building shit, we all got to do it. But you’ve built yourself up based on a passion into somebody who has the means to invest and to build businesses. What does money mean to you?
Jillian Michael…:		The one thing I would say is just for anybody whose parents aren’t able to help them or did not help them, don’t be intimidated. Because it’s easy to become a bit of a curmudgeon and become bitter. And it’s like, “Well, sure you were able to do that because your daddy gave you the” … And I get the bitterness, trust me, but it’s not serving you, and you can do it without that help. It won’t be as easy, but you can get it done.
		Bloomberg. I think he was a parking lot attendant, right? I mean, it can be done. You did it. I did it. It can be done. Jeff Bezos. Didn’t he start that out of his garage, Amazon, with a little wood sign?
Ryan Serhant:		Yeah. Let’s sell books on the internet. Yeah.
Jillian Michael…:		Yeah, right? It can totally be done. So while it takes money to make money, you can get there without that nest egg in the beginning. Not easy, but you can do it.
		What I find money buys me is freedom. I can’t tell you that it buys you happiness, but it definitely buys you freedom. So I don’t live in fear of things like cancel culture because I’m like, eh, if I never worked again tomorrow, I’m fine, okay. And it allows me … I can’t tell you how often I hear, “I agree with you.” And it’s like, “Right, but you didn’t come out and say shit because you’re scared. I don’t blame you.” But I cannot tell you how many fitness people … Like keto. Even keto, they’re like, “Yeah, this is complete shit. You’re totally right.” I’m like, “You’re the one with the PhD, say something. Say something.” And it’s in the quiet DMs because they’re so scared of the keto crusaders destroying their business that nobody speaks.
		And it has given me the ability to speak without fear and to tell what I believe is the truth. And if somebody confronts me with information that changes my mind, I’m totally open to that as well. Teach me. I’m here to learn. If there’s something I don’t know, I want to know it. But without money, I don’t know that I would be quite so brave. I’d be scared because I’d think, how am I going to feed my family next month if all of a sudden I’m, quote, “canceled”? And that’s terrifying.
Ryan Serhant:		Freedom, for sure. The harder you work, the luckier you get. Right?
Jillian Michael…:		Yes.
Ryan Serhant:		Then the more money you can make and the more free you can be, and that way you don’t give a shit. Some of the wealthiest people that I meet, they walk into a room, and they literally just have that air of “I don’t give a shit. Whatever happens, happens.” It’s self-confidence, it’s a lot of different things.
		But this has been awesome. Thank you so much for being here.
Jillian Michael…:		Thank you.
Ryan Serhant:		You are so fresh and so real. It’s just such a pleasure to talk to you, and I really appreciate you taking the time. And I hope everybody listening has had a great hour with you. Go kick ass. I hope we get to talk and meet again in person one day.
Jillian Michael…:		Me, too.
Ryan Serhant:		I’ll let you know when I’m in LA. Maybe we’ll go for a hike.
Jillian Michael…:		Oh, I would love … Or a drink. My god. Let’s do both, a hike and a drink.
Ryan Serhant:		Yeah. By the time I get to LA, the nightclubs will be open. We’ll hike and then go dancing. It’s going to be great.
Jillian Michael…:		I would love it. Thank you so much. It’s been so much fun.

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